Mixing Business With Pleasure/
- October 6, 2020
Tully has her best friend and talent manager, Genevieve Day on the show to chat about their friendship and how they manage to work and play together. We discuss balancing work and pleasure, tackling business during COVID-19, and we uncover who knows each other best in a quick fire Q&A.
On today’s show:
- Gen and Tully’s relationship
- Working in talent management
- Predicting new industry trends
- Managing work stress
- Quick fire Q&A with Tully and Gen
- A quick game of Reflex by Flex Mami
Day Management: https://www.daymanagement.com.au/
Day Management on Instagram: @daymangement
This podcast is produced by BIG MEDIA COMPANY.
Hello and welcome to Episode 12 of too much Tally. On today's episode we have my best friend and manager the beautiful Genevieve day joining us, Jen and I will be taking a stroll down memory lane reflecting on our friendship and having managed to mix business with pleasure. It's going to be a bit like a big girly sleepover, which is why we're all wearing pyjamas. I'm excited for two of my favourite gals to meet so Jess got some cell phones and let's get into it. Now Jess, you'll notice I've made UI pages for today's episode talk us through your sexy ensemble there. So I've got a Wednesday on To be honest, when you suggested doing this, I was like I had this is great. And then when I went to look through my actual pyjama drawer I was like, oh god, this is a nightmare. So when we signed into zoom this morning you weren't wearing pyjamas you were trying to get out of the of the pyjama Party Theme. Yes, that because you're embarrassed about your one z I'm so embarrassed because as you know, I don't really wear colour but my pyjama drawer is very colourful, because it's like, you know, you're gonna bet no one's gonna see you. And some of them are a little bit ready. I haven't had any new one since Christmas. I get a new pair from my parents most Christmases from Pete Alexander bless. But I thought this was my most fun one. It's a nice little onesy
yet it's still
like grey house. And blue baby thinking baby blue. Okay, I'm telling you now what I'm seeing on my screen is grey and white. It's like I went around, it's like is it black? Is it gold? What is it? looks it looks grey and light to me. Okay, do you remember the last time you had to sleep with your girlfriends was? Um, yes, I do. It was before my friends. She was getting married who he was. She was engaged. And we're going through a like a bridal expert. Oh, I'm sorry. We had a cute sleepover and we popped a bottle of Maui and he is all night and then work off and went to the expert. What were you
wearing those matching pages at bridal parties get?
Not at that point. But at the wedding. We did. Yeah. I mean, I just want a personalised I was about to say you've stitched me up here because I'm in a one z and you are in this glorious like what silk? personalised like trimmed around the edges. pyjamas. It's very fancy. You thought I was gonna rock up in some sexy ensemble. Well, I mean, we showed a something other way hit that thing called a teddy and I have no idea what the hell that was. And I just thought Kelly's got gorgeous lingerie, so I thought she might you know, if you
think I'm gonna waste my most fancy expensive lingerie on you in January, sadly mistaken. Okay, so I want to talk you through I found this ticked off the other day, obviously, I love Tick tock, we all know how much I love Tick tock, I share my favourite tic tocs on my Instagram. And I sent this one to you because I was like this is, you know, sometimes you just see you see things in movies or on TV shows, but especially on tik tok, and you're like, Wow, that is just so relatable like that is so bang on. So I'm going to play the clip for you guys. Now. It's by a user, Jess Fisher, five. And basically she's talking through what she calls a soft launch of a relationship. And I said this to you, Jess, and you're like, Oh, my God, that is so true.
Okay, fine. as requested, I'll tell you what a soft launch of a relationship is for the girl, she would post a picture of him at a restaurant, his face will not be in it. She will tag the restaurant but not tag him. For the guys. It will only be a photo of himself. And he would tag her as a photographer either in the description or the photos. As she goes through how, when it's a female, and they've just started dating. The first sign you'll see is at a restaurant, and you'll see like the cutlery go like maybe her food and then like just a glimpse of the guy's arm. You know, I'm talking about Yep, yes, you'll just see like, you know, he's watch and like his fingers. Or you'll see like him holding a B. And she won't tag him. But you just start seeing sort of more and more glimpses of this mystery man.
That's just beginning to notice that she's Yeah,
yeah, that's how the female does that still keeps it mysterious. Like there's no tagging or anything to tag the restaurant, but she went tagged the guy. And then for the guys, it's a photo of himself. And he'll like tag someone as a photographer. Like he won't say anything about her who just be like, Oh, thanks for the photo at whatever. Like, you reckon? Yes, but it's up him. She's on it. It's on a cute couple shots. It's just like, he want to hike and he'll tag her either in the photo, or he'll tag her as a photographer and like that is kind of like what she's calling a soft launch of a relationship. How bang on is that? It's bang on? I can't when you sent her. I was like, bro, right,
Oh, God, I don't even
know. I was just going to say that. It's weird that we all think the same way. I know. That was your immediate response. Right? You were like, Oh, well, how do you say? It does make you feel a little bit silly, doesn't it? You're like oh my god. We're a bunch of dumb bitches. Okay, so as usual, just you and I have talked way over time and Jen is wedding there in the wings. So let's bring her in Genevieve day Oh, Jen, as she's affectionately known to me is the director of day management. I bespoke agencies. Representing leading social influences and digital personalities, including myself, Jen, welcome to the show. I know you would literally do anything for me, but I appreciate you giving us your time nonetheless. Hi
guys, what a fun way to start the morning.
I know and Jess, you'll say that we actually wearing matching
pyjamas again, I've been stitched up.
This was a bit of a stitch up. Yeah, it really was. So that was Jen's k cake. A Kris Kringle present was it last year? He before?
I think it was last year. I want to say last year.
Yeah. And we've got opposite ones. So mine a Navy with white writing and gems are white with Navy writing. It has our names in them. So we're pretty cute. We're pretty I'm looking forward to my pair at Christmas time this year. That is a great gift idea. Okay, I'll organise that for you. Okay, Jen to kick things off. Can you tell us a little bit about how you got into talent management because when we met you working peyote, right? That's right, which feels like a lifetime ago as well does crazy. Yes, I was working in PR for a period of like six years and I was kind of like fresh, you know, bright eyed, bushy tailed I was loving everything about the industry. And then I kind of just saw the media landscape changing a little bit and all of our clients were shifting their focus and they were saying well yeah the newspapers and magazines are great but what about an Instagram post and several putting these kind of like PR reports together or social media bloggers back then before influencers were kind of born and we're putting $1 figure value on you know what their posts were worth but these people were doing it all for free. So I kind of sold out. I know I'm like guys but what do you mean is it like thousands of dollars so sorry, got the market I thought got a few connections. I know people like yourself and so yeah, day management was kind of just born to fill that gap you actually kind of started your business by the you know by the thick of night you were doing it late nights after your nine to five job you were doing it from your debt you know from your bed you even have a desk at
home you drink from bed literally
kind of like secretly loads that you didn't really tell me you were doing it like we want to do we want to chip in Bali a holiday together. I'm spitballing some names. It kind of felt like it was maybe a pipeline dream years down the track. Yeah, suddenly you will like Oh, hey, PS. I bought a company name. Yeah.
100% It was crazy.
You and I actually met um, for those that don't know you actually actually met because you booked me on my very, very first influencer travel famille, which is actually just a fancy word for like a chip away organised by a PR company. Yeah, you talk us through how those chips work. And why influences are used in this sort of PR and marketing because obviously now they're like so commonplace everywhere. Yeah, but you like it feels like I mean, I was obviously new to the game as well, but it feels like you in my head you organise the very first one
like that's to claim that to I think that's correct. Let's all say that. Yeah. I think it was 2013 or 14. It was a long time ago. Yeah. And basically I did the PR for a lot of hotels and luxury resorts and we wanted to get coverage and the best way of getting media and people there was to host them on a five star all expenses paid trip. And for some reason I was allowed to go and host that so I was like oh, works really tough. I have to go to Bali for two weeks. So I went to this like five star luxury resort. I stayed there like three times over the course of my job there. And I was like organising everything like activities, you know, visiting beautiful Balinese temples, fine dining, and I was like talking to God all about it. Then I got told I got to be there as well. So that was super fun. And it was like you Lindy Klim, 90 of us hell like Elena Pendleton. So always kind of like trailblazers who obviously you've really nailed that like the I didn't know any of those. We might know who any of them were, I didn't know Nadia by toe. I didn't know who Lindy claim was I knew who Michael Kim was. And now like, Look at us all like we're all like you've really managed to your sorrow ahead of the times with that kind of thing. I remembered as well like it got in the headlines of the Daily Mail of lack big instamate like in Bali, and in some of the photos like I was included in there and that at the time really pissed off my boss and so in the press coverage report, she had cropped me out of the Daily Mail coverage of that trip. Oh my god so jealous because she's like, it's not about you. I was like, that's, that's fair. That's a fair point. I shouldn't have been friends that trip was such a good time. Like we literally all left. That trip was only four days in Nusa dua and we left is all friends. I mean, you will literally remember on that trip I was umming and ahhing about whether I should move to Melbourne and you will like come to Melbourne you and Nadia, will that come to Melbourne? At the very least I'll be your friend and you will literally my first friend in Melbourne and I biked he basically convinced me to move here. And I think it was so nice thing because then we went to events like the races and everything and we'd see all those people there and there was this really special bond from those types of trips. So it was really invaluable in terms of like connections, but it was also just a really fun job in that I got to travel and have odd treatments and fine dining and call it work. Yeah, I mean that is literally
the dream job. You've worked with some pretty huge names in this space, including Sarah Davidson. And obviously the shameless girls and flex mummy. Have you ever had a nightmare talent on your books apart from me, because obviously, I'm a nightmare to work with.
I mean, clearly, I'm going to play the fifth bear, I can't, can't go into it too much. names. I'm not going to name names. But I think the whole like, I know, scope of the job is it's a bit of a marriage, like it has to work based on personality types. And it has to be a fit of values and core beliefs and everything. And we speak with that talent, like every single day, and we want to have those quickfire understandings of like even this job, you're gonna do it right, like, let's go. So I think that if people don't align with my personality and my values, like then maybe it can be a bit of a nightmare pairing, and we've had a little bit of that sometimes where it's like, Cool clearly on different pages. Let's call that a day. And I kind of have like a no asshole policy, like, life's too short to spend time working with people you don't get along with. It's just not worth it. That's totally fair enough. I mean, I think that you, that's why I love I mean, obviously, I'd like to say that it's because we're best friends too. But I really do think that you become so in tune with your talent that you're able to like weed out jobs before I even you don't even you just know inherently the jobs that I will and won't do. You know, you know, when you get a brief ask for, I don't know, 100% happened last week, this brand comes to me and they're like, hey, so we want to do this kalua job Telly is perfect. That she said Telly and flex. And I said so Telly hates coffee and flex doesn't drink.
So let's go back to the drawing board with that one.
I was like, I still want to work with you. And here's amazing. other suggestions. And I love the brief. And the concept was really fun. But it was just yeah, waiting out that like questioning is so valuable of being able to say I already know that she's not gonna do that. Or I already know that. You know, you have veneers or hair extension, right? It's like people want to do what teeth whitening. And it's like, does it know that you can't technically one veneers, so it's totally going to work? What's the most exciting campaign or job you've worked on? I mean, for me, I love things that are really like tangible because so much of what we do. It's quick fire. Right? So you might be working on a campaign. And yeah, it's like bloody exciting. And you say go live and it's on your phone. And then it's like an old post a day later. So I think for me, I love anything that you know, billboards that we do like those in Westfield and Sydney, there was a massive digital billboard of flag. So it was up there for like three months, and a face was giant, and even not to bring props in guys.
Oh, yeah, props.
Sara Davidson's saves the a book, like this was a concept that I pitched to the wonderful team at Murdoch, like a year ago. And then now it's a reality, and it's something I can hold. And I think that's really cool. We work on these things that become like real life moments in time it's been captured, I think as well, because when you set it out, like, you know, traditionally the industry you're in is online. And it is kind of social media. So I think when you have things like billboards and books, which are traditionally, you know, sort of top line mainstream media, you'll suddenly not keen and taking ownership of like, that's something to be proud of. Absolutely.
And it was like, Oh, yes, I was gonna
say now's probably a good time to talk to Telly about the book she's supposed to be writing. Yes, exactly. As much as we love books. I think that there's a book, you know, in everybody. I think everyone who has a massive social platform has a story to be told, and obviously an audience ready to consume it. So and I think it's time to write that sample chapter. Trust me, Jesse has been on my like, I can't tell you how much she picks it up. Like she tries to be soft about it. She's
like, hey, like,
what's that you're bored. You know what you should be doing? right in that photo? Shoot, which isn't swear, but she's like, you should be reading that book. Jen. I'm gonna go back to your door. Okay, good. we're taping this. I love it. Jen, what do you think it influences responsibilities to the audience? I mean, I think it's a big responsibility, and I think is a conversation that's happening a lot at the moment. But I think it's a conversation that should have been happening from like, de dot influenced the land, obviously, like the buzzword is always authenticity and you know, honesty, and I think that now people are being rewarded for peeling the curtain back and showing more of themselves and being like, Hey, guys, I have pimples too. I have stretch marks or, you know, living their everyday life and being honest about it. And I feel like, it's nice that Yeah, now the industry rewards people doing their job properly. And honestly, and candidly. But yeah, I think people definitely have to be honest with their audience. Otherwise, you know, you're selling a lie. And that's exhausting.
Yeah. And it's, it's, it's a lot of work to, you've always been ahead of the curve in terms of predicting what's coming up in this space, which is why you've launched the day management podcast A while back now, kind of just before podcasts kind of really took off. Where do you see the world of influencing going in the next year or so?
Yeah, I mean, it's interesting because kind of like I was saying before, everyone's leaning towards this like real life reflection, so no one wants to say like a curated fate anymore. I think people are really over like beautiful photos and Prada handbags, everyone's like I actually don't give a shit about that. What are you having for dinner? Like people want to know? Okay, what's your car insurance? And what gender and do you use? And how do you stay in shape? And how do you love yourself? So I think it's just exposing more of their lives and opening up that real, authentic people think that's really exciting for us, especially working with people like yourself, and, you know, Sarah, and flex and stuff who have those really big, honest conversations. So we're really seeing that thrive, which is cool. I think podcasting is like definitely hitting its stride now. Like we kind of started doing podcasting back in 2018. And then early 2019. You know, we signed some more podcasts. And now we kind of have a nice little suite of brands there. But I think that that's kind of here to stay, which is really cool, obviously, for us on this podcast, right? Oh,
But I think it kind of speaks to a broader demographic, whether influencing can be that kind of young girl market, it just opens it up to more conversations. It's funny you say that, because I you know, I think a couple of years back when I was trying to, I've always been very laissez faire about my influence life, as you know, which is sometimes frustrating for you as my manager. You know, I've never really I haven't sat there and studied my insights. And I haven't figured out Okay, so this is the best time to post I've never in never even tried to post at my peak times I, I like to post in real time. You know, if it's a post about skincare from wearing my pyjamas, I'm going to post in the morning, even if my peak time is 8pm. I post when it makes sense to me. And it's funny, because I think a few years back when I was trying to take it more seriously. And I was hiring people like Katy Fergus to take my photographs. And I was, you know, building up trying to take more fashion and fashion blogger kind of photos. And the photos were beautiful. And I loved them. And I looked great in them. But they never performed as well as a selfie that I took with my own arm ever. And I was like, why am I investing money and time into this? When people aren't finding that as relatable, or they're not enjoying that content as much? It's a great example of like, how if you looked externally at the time, everyone else was doing like full on fashion photos. Yeah, we had like designer, everything they were doing, like we know walking shots like they're at Fashion Week. And at the time, errands are the same thing. And then you're like, hang on, but I tried that it didn't work. It just shows that like your audience knows why they're following you. And they're kind of giving you hints as to why they're there. So yeah, it's a it's a good thing that they wanted to say you as you and not like a made up version editorial
was just so interesting to me. I'm like, why am I even bothering
I should just take, you should just get gender. Take a photo? Yeah, Jen, just FYI, jet is probably nine out of 10 of my photos Jen's taken and we just nail it. She knows what I like she knows my angles. She always says she'll say yet we've got it. We've got the shot. And I guarantee whatever shots you just took is the one that I end up using. Like we just work so well together as a team. We're in and out as well. It takes us three seconds. It also helps that I've had the client brief because I probably booked the jobs. But I know what this I can get this as well. I know you'll do it this way. You're right. It's like hang on white. You can't quite see the naki there on that jacket. Hair of it. Obviously, Jen, it's been a really weird year for everybody. How is COVID in 2020 in general, change the way you run your business? Because obviously it's perfect. I know it's because it's interesting, because I think like back in March, I remember it so clearly because I'd been in Perth for a wedding and I came back to the office. I'd been out of the office for a week I came back. I was there in one day, and we haven't been back in the office since and everything shut down. And that same day in March, they cancelled the Grand Prix and they cancelled Fashion Week in Melbourne. And I was like yeah, cool. Cool. All right. And then I had like Matthew just watching like your money like fly out the window. You're like, Oh, really chilly. Like we had a day where these big companies said like, oh, we're just not not sure what consumers are going to do is we'll just put this on pause. We'll do it later. Just on pause.
I'll put it on ice for a bit.
Yeah. And I was like, Oh, cool. That's just like all of my monthly campaigns gone awesome. But then it was kind of a really nice like evolution of people realising Okay, cool. Everyone is bored in isolation. They is opportunity here to really market in a smart way. So we did really cool things like you know, a lot of skincare at home or like cooking at home or flex at a DJ session from her living room, or we did DIY projects with Bunnings and you know, Deluxe paint. So I think we just were a bit smart about how we promote during this time while still being sensitive that a lot of people don't have jobs other people can't afford everything. So not being too in your face like by this what I love so much about you is that you are so hands on with with all of us and with the with the agency and twice this year. I've told you, I've come to you and I would have been way too scared to do this with my last manager. There's no way I would have wouldn't have gone down very well. But in January, I came to you and I said look, this is when we had the horrific bushfires in Australia. And I said, Look, I just had a few jobs coming up or I had things in the works and I was like I can't it doesn't feel right for me to be told. About skincare or promoting this cute new dress or whatever it was when our country is burning, like it just feels so insensitive It feels so you know, off and toned out at home, absolutely honed it, and I messaged you. And I said, Look, I know we have some things in the works, we have something coming up I just until these fires are under wraps or until, you know, it's not so panic stations, and we're not in a state of emergency, I just I don't want to work. I was like, I just I can't. And you were amazing. You were like, you know, what we've been feeling. Similarly, at the agency, we've already had some chats up, that's totally fine. You know, basically, you like to go all the time you feel you need, which I'm so appreciative of, because, you know, if I don't do the post, then you don't get paid either. And it has this sort of flow on effect when you can't pay your staff. So it does have an effect. It's a ripple effect. So that was in January, and I said it to you again. In late March, right. Yeah. When it was sort of really kicking off. And I said I, this feels really tone deaf to be talking about these things when you know, the country is in disarray. The world's in disarray. Again, we're like, totally get it absolutely fine. Leave with me. I'll also everything out. And, and I really appreciate, you know, both those times you being so flexible, and understanding in in pivoting and pausing when when necessary. I think it's just like, it's understanding that the world is bigger than our social media fades bigger than whatever Instagram job we have. And we're here for a long time, not for a quick buck. And so I think we look at it as a bird's eye view of like, cool if Black Lives Matter is happening. Let's amplify those voices. So that's another time You're right. I said I said it. It was that when I said it. Yeah. Yeah, you're right. It's like I can't post anything right now. Like it just feels absolutely. I know. You want to shoot it? Yeah, exactly. And that's the thing, we kind of said, Well, this is way more important than whatever skincare Westbrook in. So let's just all take a breather, and the brand's understandable explain it in a way that makes sense to everybody. And yeah, having that kind of bird's eye view, we're thinking strategically for a long time. Like, it's so much more valuable to do that and maintain relationships and your integrity, and then be around influencing for 510 20 more years. That's the thing, right? Because if I had, you know, not done that, and put my hand up and started posting about my new high heels, it would have been bad for me, it would have been bad for you. And we've been bad for that for the client today, because the fallout would go back to the client. Right? Sorry. Yeah.
I just it was really, I yeah, I've always felt so heard and supported by you when I make those decisions. And they're not easy decisions to make. Because again, if I'm not posting it also means I'm not getting paid. Yeah. And you know, for that January chunk, when we had the bushfires, I mean, yeah, got it got tight there.
Yeah, absolutely. And it was like, it was a whole thing of Yeah, there's more than money. And there's ways we can support and put our influence behind things. And I think that then came back to reward us because we were, you know, appropriate during that time. Then brands noticed that and said, Okay, cool. She clearly cares about this. And she has a heart and she's using her platform for good. So it kind of yet comes full circle, which is nice, too. There's always been this negative connotation with influencers. I think we've both experienced that where there's sort of where these dumb sport brat to get all the freebies and free holidays in the world for doing absolutely nothing. But you and I both know that there's so much more work that goes on behind closed doors. What do you think is the biggest misconception about influences, I think just better and work hard. And then it's easy money, which like to an extent it can be there's no denying, you can make a quick, easy buck. But I think again, the strategy that goes on behind the scenes, like people don't see that and that's even like what my team and I work on, we work so hard always having these creative discussions and strategic discussions of you know, campaign budgets for financial years. Like, it doesn't happen on a whim. And, and I remember I was actually yet on a holiday with my partner's friends. This girl was out in public taking photos of herself. And one of my partner's friends was like making fun of her metal. Look at that girl, like, oh, how annoying. And I kind of stopped him. And I said, She's probably making three times your salary mate. So let's just not poke fun. Like, right? That's her job. And she's fucking doing it. Well, yeah. Yeah. And it's a shame. Like, I think that when we started doing this, it wasn't a negative connotation. Like, I think people didn't roll their eyes as much as they do now. And they've definitely been some people that have ruined it for the rest of us. But I think it's coming around. And my kind of catchphrase is always saying like, people have influence over influences, to kind of get around those that are Yeah, doing the dirty when caring. Working in social media is a 24 seven job as we both know, and are you personally you struggle to switch off especially because you have become, you know, personal friends with most of your talent? How do you create those boundaries? It's hard. I know you really like as your best friend. That's kind of when it's hard for me to flip between your talent and your best friend. Because I have been known, you know, and I do try and I try to stop, I try to avoid it. But I have been known to send the occasional, you know, 11pm text being like it happens all the time from everybody. And I think it's just like it was all about scaling the business I kind of had a moment in time when I realised this business is worth nothing if it's just me, because I you can't you know, Ctrl C Ctrl V yourself. And so if I can't, you know, emulate what I'm doing for other people, it's just my time it's been me like sucked out like a vampire. So I think I really figured that out maybe like a year and a half ago or a year ago, took me way too long to figure that out. You were really burning out for a while they're like you really just burn the candle at birthing. It was bad. And so now I think as we're scaling the business and new talent coming in, it's now about introducing like, hey, day management isn't just Genevieve day, it's like a whole team of people. And we empower everybody to have you know, all information on hand. They've got briefs, I've got every swipe up link you might need every hashtag is there given to you. So whenever it comes, you know, your weekend posting time, you shouldn't need to text us. But obviously, we're always there if you do as well, but it's a struggle. I'll never forget, we're at harbour cafe. And you're so like you were literally at your wit's end. You were so exhausted, you are working overtime. You were you were just you were done. And I said, Jen, you know, I think it's time like you've done so amazing at launching day management. But I think it's time you hire another staff member. and bless your cotton socks. And this is just you being a type personality an overachiever? You for some reason initially thought that having to hire help was like you failing. And I was like, I quit. And I was like, Jen, no, it's you expanding like you've done so well. You've got now to a point where you need extra help. You need to hire staff. They work under you may like they're not still your business. They weren't below you. But you need help. You need a team. And you it was like his pin drops in your head and you're like, oh, oh, hang on. I'm not failing. If I have to hire staff. You really I don't know how you so so Exactly. aggressing just being a one woman show because like, you're now you know what, how big is the team now? Like, was made plus four. That's amazing. That's insane. That success. Right? Thank you
But it took her she honestly thought and I had to like shaker I remember reading cafe and I was like, you. That's what like, You're so silly. This is
amazing. I remember that day.
It's amazing. You need that you need stuff. Like it shows you how far you've come from when you launched it. Yeah, I think I'm it was always I guess the catch 22 of like people, you know, word of mouth is amazing. And saying oh, you know, Jen, so great. And then they were like, Oh, cool. If we sign on, I want to get you. And I was like, ah, but the team's awesome. And the team of trained by me. So why can't you talk to them? So I think we're now getting to a happy medium. It's kind of like when you go to the hairdresser, right? And he find either a stylist that you love or colours that you love, and you build this rapport with them and you love that colour and then suddenly, they get pregnant. Yeah, they're like, Oh, hi. So just sort of, you know, I'm away for nine months on passing, you want to Janell and you're like, No, I didn't What? No, I don't, I don't know her like, it does take a lot of I mean, I love all your stuff. You've got amazing staff there. It's an amazing team. I do love them, you'll get along really well. But you're I know what you're talking about when you say that? Has there ever been a moment when you've struggled to be my friend as well as my manager? Like, when does the line become blurry? I think it's blurred for like good and bad reasons. I think that the line gets blurred like in a positive sense. When you know you get booked to promote tourism Willington and then you have to bring a photographer and I'm like, I'll come I'll do it. We
usually have free that weekend. So.
So yeah, things like that. It comes, you know, blurred in a good way when I shoot you and I know exactly what you need, or I can go to events as your plus one. But I'm also there was like a work person. So I think there's positive signs and then yeah, I think there's definitely negatives to it. I think, you know, hold back, come on. I can tell it, tell them tell people the truth. I think just information sometimes it's hard because I know everything weather if you like we're telling someone else, you know, an excuse or a reason why something's late, you could make something up. But you know, you and I are texting you like hey, I'm so fucking hungover. And I'm like, oh, but that's content. So would you Okay, all right. I'll just, yeah, you can't shoot today. It is really hard. Yes. It's really hard. Because it's like, you know, when you're when you're working in another, you know, a nine to five job and you have a boss,
right? Which I'm not your boss, by the way. I mean, you kind of
in a way you are my boss. I mean, you can report to you, you kind of I guess I'm your boss. Anyway. What anyway, usually, right? If you're sick, or like you've forgotten to do a report, you can make up some bullshit excuse. You know, like, Oh, sorry. Like my grandma had a stroke or like, Oh my god, I had a migraine all weekend. Jen's my best friend. So like, she seen the stories from the night before ever me having a gazillion cocktails. And then if she's on a Monday morning, like, hey, just wondering where that content is. And I'm like,
gotta be real with you here. And have you ever had to put your Put down with her.
Oh, yeah, I think I think you have to. And sometimes I have to remind myself like it's actually disservice to both of us if I don't have that same professional relationship like I do that other people. And so if I'm not pulling you up on things, even if I'm not making sure we're, you know, working out optimal, best of what she says. The thing is, Jen is also very smart. And it's funny because I know she's doing it yet it works. She's figured out a way because she knows me so well, right, she manipulates me into doing what she wants me to do in a way that will work for me, right? So I'm not very good at. I don't like being told what to do. I don't like being yelled at. I don't like tough love. Right? So gentle swing around, and act as if she's, she's on my side, doing me a favour, but really what she's doing is getting me to do what I was supposed to be doing. But I'm confused by it. Like, she likes. Like, she'll jump in if I'm being difficult or if I'm like, like with something and I'm trying to give like her other teammates like a cheat excuse. She's always say Satan, shit turns as you see,
everything she'll like take me inside email like this her message like, hey, look what she does, but it still works. She's like, hey, look, I know. It's the word. It's like, right? It sucks. It sucks. so bad. Like I know, right? Like, this is like such a shitty, like, boring grave. But you know what, we've just got to do it. Like, you know, like, just gonna do it. It'll take you half an hour, I'll come over, I'll shoot if you want me to shoot it. And then you know, that's your rent for the week case. Let's just get over and done with and then tonight, we'll go out and have Dino have a few drinks. And I'm like, Okay, fine. Yeah. Okay. And then like, the next day, and like, she absolutely manipulated me to do what she wanted me to do.
They call me the puppet master for I got
I got in there being like, not fucked. It's not too hard, don't do this job anymore not to want to do it. And then generally, like, Look, we've had the brief of three weeks now. And everyone's already agreed to it, we've signed a legal document, you signed a contract, mate, so just do a bloody job. But with everybody though, like, even, like different talent might have different, like, I don't say weak spots, but just you know, areas that you can kind of push on to get things to happen. So I know, you know, some people are motivated by money. So people are motivated by like, the status of the brand and working with or you know, the reach and exposure. So it's a good way to know like, okay, there's no point saying it's this much money, that person doesn't care. But it's like, Hey, you know, it'll look really good for like the strategy if you promotion if you work with this, like high level luxury brand. So it's just you know, knowing how to move the people around, you know,
weaknesses, and you play,
smiling, assessing, if someone wanted to get into your industry, how would they go about doing it? Oh, actually receive a heap of emails about face, which is very exciting, because I think that it's like a bit of a behind the scenes job that people don't realise exists as well, a tiny bit. I think, firstly, like developing a super thick skin and realising that you are not the talent is a big thing that is like a recurring theme. People sometimes think like, Oh, I want to be a talent manager. So I can be like, adjacent to shiny people. It's like, Oh, it's just, it's a lot of scheduling and a lot of like, number crunching, but I think just like experience in the industry, right, like anything, you know, internships are incredible. And it kind of helps you have a bit of a gauge of is this for me or not? Because I don't think that it is for everybody, but I really love what I do. Yeah, like you have some really tough days like I know like, you know, you're often the middleman you're often the punching bag both for the client and for the talent you know, if a job goes astray, you're copying it from both angles
all the time.
Yeah, time at the end of the day you're human and you know you know you are a softy like yes you've got you're happy to go into fight for us but you're also you know you're a real softy at the end of the day and yeah, if I talk sometimes as your friend to watch you cop it from everybody from all angles. And I think so like as it's grown it's been easier because like the relationships we have with the brands are so much better now. So we can be like Hey, come on, like my soulmate in the middle here. And and even with the team like having an outlet to say to them like Oh, this is so fucking annoying when it was just me Oh, just you know, sitting in my bedroom and your head against the wall. You're like,
crying What have I just
say no, I think industry experience is so important because it's so you know, changes so quickly. What I learned at university is so not applicable at all to what I'm doing right now are any comms degrees? Do they actually help? No, I didn't like my degree. Okay, guys, we are going to move into the next section. And I want to know how well you really know each other. Oh, dear. I'm excited. I'm also very competitive, like, very competitive, but I've also notoriously bad friend test. So we'll see how this goes. Okay, hang on, hang on. I famously tell a story I've even told on the podcast, maybe maybe not where someone asked me my body count and on Did your brother yeah to help me figure it out? Because I forgot half of that.
And you know when that's
like, what about that skater boy that time? I was like, Oh, yeah, that guy. He was cute. He was good. Get guys on our list. You need to check it in your notes. Me too. I've in my notes as well. Yeah, I don't have any minutes. Okay, I'm Jen. I love your friendship with Holly. She talks about you all the time. And I know she thinks the world of you. So I really hope that you have some strong answers for these questions.
Okay, what is Kelly's best quality?
I think, like loyalty for sure. I feel like when you know, if anything happens to any one of her friends, she's like, the first person there to go into bat for them or to support them or to send flowers or to send a card or a gift that's totally unnecessary. So yeah, I think loyalty for sure. That's nice. You know, some flowers as well. It was very, very thoughtful. She loves a gift.
Yeah. 10 love language.
Is it okay. What is your love language?
Um, acts of service, which is kind of I guess, how did
this Yeah. Okay, what is her most annoying habit? I feel like where do I begin? Yeah, the list is like, no, it's not long. I think I think he's such a great communicator. And so you love communicating all the time. And like Personally, I'm always in like zooms or conference calls or just like tired so I won't be able to reply all the time. They'll just be a Caminiti. No, you you're a wonderful communicator.
That is true. Jed has had the puppet
Yes, she had a few times be like, hey, just like this reminder. Like I work a nine to five. I was like a nine to nine. Like last night I finished work at 8:30pm and I sat down and texted you back being like, I'm just coming up for air. Now.
I thought you're gonna say that I micromanage you from afar.
Oh, but I don't I don't mind that. I think I like that because I'm so hyper organised in my job. My personal life is a bit of a shambles. So like when Talia is like, Cool dinner is booked beta this time, Jess, I'll even be like, Hey, guys, just FYI, there's a crash in the freeway. So maybe leave 15 minutes early. And they're like, totally, we can sit out so
that's thoughtful. Okay, biggest misconception,
um, that you're a bitch. I think
because you're not you love holding back. or running. There was that one? I know. You guys. You've spoken about this in the podcast before as well. People, you know, make assumptions based on looks at everything. Couldn't be more further from the truth. Yeah, I agree that as well. You're very different behind the scenes and your maybe your Instagram portrays as well. Yeah. Pink, cool personality. All right. What is your funniest memory with tally? Ooh.
This list is long.
We've had so many funny memories.
So many. And so few are appropriate to say publicly. I think we've you know, we've travelled together. We've I think we just had fun wherever we are. We I don't know. I can't think of the year
at the time in Bali,
that we're not sign up right now. It's like, All right.
All right. What are your thoughts on Teles love life? And how do you feel about the guy that the guys that she dates off? Look, I think recently we've really turned a corner. I think there's been a really big interest in like the nice guy. And I think Yeah, in the past, you've been attracted to the wrong things like a moth to a flame. But at the moment, it's all the other positive qualities. And so yeah, whatever. There's a nice, you know, quiet more down to earth guy. I'm like, Yes, get yourself Pacha. Let's fucking do it. That's a partner by the way. She wants me to find a version of her own boyfriend.
Yeah, he's lovely.
A few days actually.
Have you? Who would you like to see Telly end up with? Obviously outside of drew? obviously not true. No offence to true, Lee. Um, I mean, I just think he Yeah, nice noble guy that can be like grounding and just calming. That's the dream. Where do you say Telly? You intellian five years?
Oh, maybe I'll be well, bitches. Yeah.
I think that whole like evolution. Maybe we'll be I know like walking the 10 with prams is posted with takeaway coffees and a hot chocolate like Who knows? I love that.
That is the dream era
era around Exactly. It was still in a pain nation.
We're obviously not leaving the bubble like gentleman's literally five metres for me. Like I could probably reach out to her and she'd hate me. And Jen, what do you believe makes a good friend. I think just honesty like me, I would be super honest and upfront with the other person and yeah, had that kind of understanding. I feel like both of us have had moments where we've turned around and been like, Hey, I'm not coping or like, Hey, this is a struggle right now. And as always, like no judgement. I think yeah, that's been super important. Like even you guys have spoken about this on the podcast before but tele bless us all wouldn't bought me all these really fun events. And I'd be like something every single night and I work really hard. And I'm tired sometimes. And it stresses me out. And my therapist calls it I have avoidance, which is where something's too hard. And like, I cannot attend that, like, I will avoid that completely. And so yeah, I kind of turned around and said to you, like, Hey, I cannot do this. And please stop sending me the invites, because I feel so guilty saying no to it, like a terrible person saying no. And, and so then it was just like, yeah, cool. No worries, I'll just send you the ones that you definitely want to come to. And so yeah, even just having that kind of honest discourse of what's Yeah, the best for both of us. Yeah, I think I said, you know, in the chat about the garage graveyard, and what makes good friends is that Jen is like, there's no judgement with Jen. Like I could, I could literally message her and be like, hey, so I just killed a guy. And she'd be like, Okay, um, well, let's find a good lawyer. And we'll just, you know, deal with each step as they come. Like she just honestly wouldn't bat an eyelash and I think that yeah, that's why we make such good friends. Want to see loyalty, and no judgement. Yep. Okay, I've got a quick fire game for you. Sorry, quick questions. One of each of us one page view. That's okay. Jen, if Telly had $1,000 to spend, what would she spend it on? And this is a disadvantage because she listened to the podcast and you've already said this. Oh, have I? Well, she's obviously not it's not top of her mind. Gone. Jane. What What was your knee jerk reaction? She would spend every single cent of it she will not put away $1 of it. And she'd spend it all on fancy restaurants. And
you mentioned it last week. I think.
Obviously, her main point there was I wouldn't save any of it. That was her point.
Please put them away.
To Holly, if Jen could only watch one musical for the rest of her life, what would it be? Okay, so Jen does love musicals. She's she'll happily tell you that she wants channel.
She just did jazz hands just so everyone's aware.
Jay Z's Do you a part of a performance group
I may have performed at Disneyland or Disney World in Florida at the ripe age of 15 with a travelling musical called the silver donkey.
It sounds like it's a joke, but it's not.
So Jen and I have seen many musicals together. And in fact, she once got up on stage, stripey ballroom and danced on stage for like the best because I knew one of the people in the cars and they came and got me. I okay, this might not be the right answer, but I know she's been watching it recently, Hamilton.
Yeah, it's it's damn good.
It's right. Jen. If Telly could have a one night stand with any of your exes who would be
um, are we allowed to save the day?
No, okay. I would probably say drew just for old times sake, and I'll tell you my proper answer offer. That was a safe answer. But you know what? I wouldn't say no. So that's fair. It's also the right answer. Telly if Jen's house is on fire, what would she say first?
Apart from Patrick, her partner?
Um, yeah, he can walk out I think
okay, handbags should say well, her designer handbags.
That's so funny because we just had this conversation Pat night because my stove stopped working. And it was like a little blow something it sound went off and you could smell like electrical smoke. Shit. It was like, you know, you can't even put water on electrical fire. We don't have a fire blanket or an apartment. And I was thinking okay, how long would it take me to get all the Chanel out of the comments? And I'll just like you just have to go like you have to warn your neighbours in an apartment. I was like not they can fend for themselves. And
I can take your take your hair bags for sure.
Jen if Telly was stranded on a desert island what three things would she take? Oh, I think you would take a book or books plural. Probably like some form of like music to listen to. And sunscreens it's really important. So no kind of like safety apparatus or anything not
Right I would I'm very sad smile. I've Carolyn at my scheme. I would definitely take sunscreen and I love books and I could can't live without music. Yep, Telly Jen and pat i getting married. Who is in the bridal party
will make obviously I'm brought a party. Okay. Jen has so many school friends like she's one of those girls who's still very very close with a lot of her school friends like they hang out all the time. Just as we can just pass they did like this really cute like mass group. Zoom cooking class. They made like some stuffs zucchinis Yeah, that's the case of cap skins. Yep. Okay, so I would be in there obviously. I'd be maid of honour but we both know and organise the best you know everything. bachelor party bachelorette party bridal shower. me she'd have gotcha so many good friends. Right. She's so many friends. Right? Georgia.
Yeah. She have a sister probably Felicity Yeah.
She loves everyone Sarah.
So many people now like I think he had a cape his small bridal party otherwise your photos will you have to have a club you'd have to have club either and Sarah you love both of those girls? You'd have right she'd have Felicity to have made have ga you'd have Yeah, there's a lot that's like 27 dresses to ship and I think
all right at least you know tallies in the
Jen Telly gets an invite to hang out with a Kardashian. Who is a cool okay, really? Who's my favourite Kardashian? I mean, I think that you love Scott disick as like a size I do but talk about is the actual costumes um, the shadows
go girl. Yeah, we like Chloe Larry's I have been keeping up with them at the moment. Let's say my eyes I trade of course you have and tele Jen signs her dream client talent today management who is a? Okay knee jerk reaction is Kanye West. Janice love Kanye West for so many years. She used to have a lightbox in her bedroom that had Kanye lyrics should change periodically. But she's also a smart businesswoman. And Kanye at the moment is PR disaster. Yeah, waiting to happen. Oh, I mean, she does not think it actually ends. She also really likes James Van. Jen likes to watch like old grey ones shows like she won't watch like current series. She'll just go back and watch like the office or Dawson's Creek or like Gossip Girl again. I've also been known recently, I've been like dming James Van Der Beek and he hasn't seen them and he hasn't replied and I've just been like, he seemed like a really good dad. Why are you saying that to him? super weird of me. Well, no, he has like 17 Kids he has like, I know
that he's gonna respond to that because you're talking about his children.
I don't know who I see. I want him to know that. I'm noticing he's a great dad, not just a great actor. Ah, that's great. Okay, do you know what I'm gonna say? Kanye? Kanye shot. I love him. Brilliant. All right. To end this episode. I know Italia, you are a massive fan of Ray flex, which is flex mummys. game. And Jen, you got to flex mummy. So I thought it would be great to end on both of you pulling out a card from the pack. And I know you both got all of the extension packs and whatnot.
Yeah, of course I do.
I actually just got my free rooms Extension Pack for him. Right she's great if you guys don't know who frames is she called us used to you know, work oppression TV. They were dum dums and find her so if you guys want to high frames. She's amazing. Actually frames. Let's talk. Yeah.
Yes, sign frames. Okay.
When have you got a card that you've
making a good one? Are i doing a random one at random?
Oh, okay. All right. Girl, would you prefer to be seen or heard? Heard? I think I like communication. And I like people who understand me and where I'm coming from.
Jen, what about you?
100% I think as well like what we've learned in lockdown is that the hair and makeup is not a life for me. So if we have no visual amazing, you can just listen. Um, I am already very sane. And I frustratingly don't feel like I'm heard enough. So I would rather be heard. Absolutely. All right, my car which is from the rooms expansion pack. If the world was ending, and Elon Musk offered you a seat on his spaceship, would you go even if you couldn't take any of your loved ones? Oh,
yes. What's the point of all of us not going?
Yes. Right. Is this really
your birth your responses I told you to assemble? I just I told you to dislike Genevieve I swear to God. I mean, I have related to a few things that you've said throughout this episode. But the reasoning is, is that if if the world's ending, they're dying anyway, so it's like you may as well they want what's best for us. So you might as well go
to pragmatism. Thank you.
Wait, hang on your fucking cancer just as a cancer and Jen's a Taurus is my sense. Of course. I'm not going without my loved ones, you stupid, cold hearted bitch and
I'd be happy to wait until they died.
And if we're getting into like the nitty gritty of it, it's like literally it's not leaving until the world ends so you too are so pragmatic. Okay, guys, oddly, we haven't gone surprisingly over time this episode. So Jen, let's pull one more card. Ah, frost organza.
Okay, let me choose a good one.
Okay, yeah, she's a good one. Robin, go for a super heavy one. Okay, has your life improved since this time last year? Jesse go. Yes, it's done a full 180 I love life at the moment. Oh, it's awesome. Yeah. Last year I was really unhappy.
On Oh, sorry.
Yes, it has to answer your question.
What about you, Jen? I think
so. I don't even don't look backwards. Just look forwards. Yeah.
I mean, I think it's a it's a weird year I like I thought instantaneously would all say no, because we are all in Melbourne. We have all been stuck in stage for lockdown for I don't even know how many weeks now nine, nine weeks. We spent most of the year church no houses. So I thought we'd all say no, it hasn't. I'm has been improved. I mean, I have the podcast. And this really is my pride and joy. It's my little baby. And I didn't have the podcast this time last year. So in that way, it's improved. I think I'm in a better place mentally, for sure. I would just love to be allowed out to see my friends and family. Yeah, it would be great. Yeah. Isn't that a weird juxtaposition? It's like literally the hottest year of all of our lives probably. But we're good.
Yeah, I think that's I think, if nothing else this year, especially Victorians. But everyone in general, I think that 2020 will make us stronger, more resilient human beings. But honestly, like what we've always experienced to go pandemic, we've been trapped in our houses. What else can you throw at us? Like a day? Yeah, bring it on. Okay, one last reflex car to finish the episode. It's very serious, guys. It's very thought provoking. And I really want you thinking caps on and give me your best answer. Why do you think most people are okay with eating pigs but not dogs?
Okay, go on
then. Okay, it's because dogs have with it breeds within them. Like you can't have gorgeous. How is this the third episode we're talking about whip. It's like because you need to apologise and you need to stand up for the whip community. Yeah, that's why because they're beautiful. And they love you and pigs don't they don't give a shit. No, they're just rolling shit. Exactly. And also, I don't know, I think the lower down and like the closer to humans, like, you know, monkeys are pretty close. Dogs are up there. I don't know how close pigs are.
But also, I don't really like bacon.
Okay, fair enough. I think it's because, you know, over time, centuries and centuries and centuries, dogs have been domesticated. You know, they've been our pets they've lived in the homes have been our best friend. And we've become accustomed to train them like part of the family. I would love a pet pig. If I could feed a pet pig in my tiny semi imprint. I would. Alas I cannot actually coordinate YouTube and Instagram and Google Hall about foxes and if you can domesticate foxes because of the fox it was on what this fox is on Tick Tock all the time. There's no I can't say bed. I can say them IRL. I saw I saw like three foxes in the space of a week. And I'm googling like, Is this my spirit animal? Like, what does this mean?
I heard you start Fox in puram.
Yes, right in the train station. And in Camberwell. Curious?
Yeah. There are foxes in where we live.
Yeah. And there's like English or something. No, I love all the rubbish in a city level a little bins? I think also in terms of that question. I'm I've never watched any of those. And don't ask me Don't come to me, Talia. Don't come to me. But I've purposely never watched any of those like cowspiracy or any of those eye opening netflix documentaries or specials because I know with my bleeding heart that I will watch that and I will be vegan and I don't want to do that to myself. I really don't know. We like McDonald's too much. We do. Too much. Okay, well, this has been a really fun episode. I actually don't want to say goodbye to either of you. Because this is the most social interaction I've had always. Jen, thank you so much for taking the time. And I said earlier on the episode, you would literally do anything for me no matter how uncomfortable it made you. So I really, really appreciate you coming on the show. You've been in the works. I've wanted to talk to you for a long, long time. So I'm glad that the episode you know, matching PJ's. Thank you. Thank you for having me. I hope it was interesting. And I'll you know happily come back. If you'll have me. Brilliant. Absolutely. Absolutely. Guys, as always, you can follow us at too much totally on Instagram and catch the podcast. Wherever you listen to your podcast, it would mean the world. If you could leave a review. Let us know your thoughts. We'd love hearing what you guys think of the show. Send me a DM, share the podcast with your friends and as always, I will see you next Tuesday.